A look at the battle for equal rights…

     With the budget signed Monday by Gov. Jim Doyle, Wisconsin has become the first state with a constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage and civil unions to put in place domestic partnerships for same-sex couples.  Wisconsin is also the first Midwestern state to legislatively put in place legal protections for same-sex couples.   Starting Aug. 1, couples will be able to apply for a declaration of domestic partnership with their county of residence and would pay a vital records fee for processing the paperwork. Partnerships will be dissolved through a termination process at the county clerk’s office.  Couples would be offered 43 of the more than 200 rights and benefits extended to married couples, such as allowing domestic partners to take family and medical leave to care for a seriously ill partner, make end-of-life decisions and add health care coverage.

     What this basically means is that in the state of Wisconsin, Gay couples can look married, act married, and receive many of the benefits of being married.  There is a process, just like marriage.  The state gets to charge their fees for the licenses (which aren’t actually licenses).  These gay couples, who aren’t actually married, can effectively get a divorce.

     Perhaps I’m missing something here.  For the record, I favor gay marriage.  I believe that in today’s society, the gay community has become a significant section of our populace, and to refuse the same rights as straight couples is blatant discrimination.   I’m sure I’m opening myself to the ire of the right wing fundamentalists here, but they are completely missing the point. 

     These people need to realize what a precious gift the ability to freely practice the religion of their choice is.  They are able to do so for several reasons, not the least of which is that the United States has a concept called ‘The separation of church and government’.  The government of our great nation exists outside of the bounds of organized faith… which is exactly the reason that Muslims, Jews, catholics, and  even groups like the Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses can exist side by side the way we do. 

     The issue of gay marriage is, without question, a religious issue.  While I am in favor of it as a political issue,  if asked to make a moral judgement I would be much more on the fence. (although in the end I would probably still vote in favor, liberal that I am)  But these opponents are trying to have their cake and eat it,  too, and seemingly believe that is their right to impose their moral view upon society when they see fit.  But where does it end?  Where is the line that can’t be crossed?  What areas can and can’t they impose their beliefs?

     Having made my point of view obvious, the point of this piece is this…. I have read numerous gay rights activists refer to this as a major victory, and I wholeheartedly disagree.  A small victory, yes.  But in the end, the religious majority is still able to put their huge moral foot on the neck of gay marriage.  This is ever so reminiscent of the way America ‘freed’ the slaves…. they were no longer property, but remained something less than citizens.  Have we not evolved beyond such blunt, basic discrimination?  We will allow these people to serve in the military, as long as they shut up about it.  And now they can be together as a couple, but not like the rest of us.  Am I the only one who has ever heard the farcical statement ’seperate but equal’?

     This country of ours, as great as it is, still disappoints me at times.  We pride ourselves in being an enlightened, open minded culture, yet we willingly succumb to a form of religious tyrany… the kind we all fled to America to escape.  And we impose it upon ourselves.  How sad.

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Comments (41)
  • goodselfme on Jul 3, 2009

    Strong points made. You composed and said them well.

  • NIN1971 on Jul 3, 2009

    I want to stumble..digg..twitter and vox this..is that Okidoki with ya…waitin’ for your response.

  • more rightous than you. on Jul 3, 2009

    you seem like an inteligent man, yet you publish this garbage. gays are filth!

  • Robert on Jul 3, 2009

    Mnof,we are all born with sin, we all are guilty of breaking God’s commandments. Jesus came to give Life and Salvation.
    God is not a tyrant, He puts His laws in place to keep people from harming themselves. The medical risks of homosexual behavior are well documented, I am not here to attack anyone just here to inform and to let people know that Jesus came to save WHOSOEVER would come to Him,

  • P.S. from Robert on Jul 3, 2009

    to “more righteous than you” remember these words “let he who has not sinned cast the first stone” you are a sinner as much as anyone else,so don’t be attacking others, we should pray for the lost, only God knows the state of anyones heart when they pass from this world

  • Damned on Jul 3, 2009

    I’ve always wondered why religious people are so afraid of homosexuality. To the point that we get blamed for everything bad that happens in society. We’re treated worse than murderers, worse than adulterers, worse than rapists, and what have we done really?

    Nothing. Except maybe to love the ‘wrong’ person. What kind of god ranks love as one of the mortal sins? Is that not tyranny? For centuries we have been the scapegoat for everything from pestilence to plagues. We basically have to BEG to become human?

    I will not engage in Biblical debate. I had long given up on religion. Not because I’m “evil” and “sinful”, but because religions gave up on me first. I’ve known I was attracted to men since age 8. How many times have I prayed to be ‘normal’? How many times have I contemplated suicide rather than face a hellish life of being a social outcast and then face eternal damnation afterward? What could an 8 year old possibly do that could merit a ‘punishment’ as that? No, it’s better not to believe in a God than believe in a God who would curse us with a life of unhappiness and then punish us for it. That kind of God sounds more like Satan to me.

    As for the medical risks… Gays are a medical risk? Only because the US government refuses to recognize that HIV even exists. Content to let us all die in the name of ‘morality’. What about the millions of people infected in Africa? Do you think they’re gay? How could you tell us we are medical risks and then on the other hand attempt to kill us? Homophobia is a medical risk for us. Thousands of gay teens commit suicide each year

  • bigpapi on Jul 3, 2009

    As a Black man, I can tell you that the discrimination is not the same at all. First of all, being gay is a CHOICE! And how many gay slaves are there?

  • judith Dupree on Jul 3, 2009

    I felt I had to say something, I feel I know a little of this subject,I have three cousins two boys and a girl as children there seemed more than a little differance between the two boys one liking football and all the boys stuff and the other seemed more gentile, but all of my cousins were well brought up good natured nothing to put down…..Now they are adult like me and I love them all dearly butone is Gay a sweet good natured man who has only ever done good ….we spoke of being Gay, and this is what he told me ….Judy do you think I would have chosen to be laughed and and insulted all my adult life, I was born this way , I didnt choose it.

  • Rynn Michaelz on Jul 3, 2009

    As to be expected a couple of morons have commented on this story but I’m glad to see some intelligent and accepting people have too. Really well written article Mnofdichotomy, as a Brit and a bonified agnostic I’ve always found the stronghold religion has in American politics a little unnerving.

    I’m reminded of a quote by a comedian who I forget the name of at the moment: “I’m all for gay marriage. I think gay people have the right to be as unhappy as the rest of us!”

  • Sheila M on Jul 3, 2009

    Having seen my brother in law grow up from a kid into adulthood I don’t believe gay is a choice. This man was gay from the moment he popped out of the womb. He never enjoyed ‘boy’ toys no matter how much he was coaxed into liking them. It was Barbie all the way. Although I may not agree with it I would never judge a person based on their preference. He is the sweetest man alive. He just likes guys. From a political stand point I can understand why the state has basically ’stayed on the fence’ with this one. It keeps both sides relatively happy. I know many of you will come through here and instead of leaving your opinion will bash the author for his (or even mine for that matter). You don’t have to like it. If you did you would be doing it and I’m pretty sure we are not all perfect either. I would hope, that like this matter we could give just a small amount of respect.

  • Judith Dupree on Jul 3, 2009

    Judith Dupree
    Profile Page
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    I read a write up about Gays in the US , I cannot find it now, but it touched me so much i had to reply, this seems the best way of doing it, Many commented some for some against.I have three Cousins two Boys one Girl, growing up we were not aware of any changes except that the one cousin was alot more drawn towards girly games, NOw they are all grown Like me and my Cousin is Gay, we talked about this and this is what he said……..Judy do you think I would choose to be laughed and spit at and ridiculed I didnt ask to be this way I was Born this way, dont you think I would have like to have had children, have my Father be proud of me , I did not ask for the way that I am.

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 3, 2009

    I definitely agree with the majority of this. Separation of church and state is a difficult issue, especially in this area as marriage itself is largely a religious issue. I have always thought that a good compromise would be to leave the religious part out of the equation- ie, perhaps a gay partnership could be referred to as something other than marriage- but that they should of course receive every legal benefit of marriage that any other couple would receive. But then, as we all know, that little rule of separation of church and state is only employed when advantageous to those in power, so this is unfortunately one battle that may be hard-won.

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 3, 2009

    And as to the idiots who have commented or will comment about how God disapproves of homosexuality, I would just like to point out something which many Christians and other gay-bashers seem to ignore: yes, many gay relationships are all about the sex (just as many straight relationships are), and yes, even by fair standards they may be considered “sinful.” Others, however, are relationships based fully on an unconditional love (just as are the purest of straight relationships- see the connection yet?). It’s a shame that some of you see love and think it’s disgusting just because it’s the wrong kind of love. After all, YOUR GOD IS LOVE, isn’t he? And if the problem is all that sex outside of wedlock, then somebody needs to punch you in the face because that’s your own damn fault.

    And that’s what I have to say about that. ;)

  • BullwinkleMuse on Jul 3, 2009

    One thing, among many, bothers me about the influence that religion has on politics and lawmakers in the U.S.: Religious institutions enjoy tax-exempt status, while at the same time exercising their influence over our government’s decision-makers. I say if that they want to have that much control over the government, they should pay the price of admission like the rest of us. Otherwise, they can keep their doctrines within the walls of their tax-free buildings.

  • sweetievee on Jul 3, 2009

    Very well written, passionate piece. You hit the nail on the head that we believe we are “an enlightened, open minded culture,” when in fact other countries are way more enlightened and open minded than we are. American government is the Pied Piper, the President is the flute, and we are the rats(or children) following along to our deaths.

    Now, I believe in everyone’s right to do as they wish, as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. But I am also tired of reverse discrimination from gay and lesbian rights activists. I have a right to believe whatever morally and not be verbally bashed and shunned as well. I’ve actually lost a couple good friends because the subject was brought up by them, and I was honest and said I didn’t believe that being gay/lesbian was morally right. I wasn’t mean about it at all. I also believe that there are plenty of other things that people do that are just as morally incorrect. Also, I don’t have to agree with everything that a person does in order to like them, respect them, and be friends with them.

  • Mathias on Jul 3, 2009

    God ordained marriage between a man and a woman, to eminemgrl, there is a vast difference between Love and lust, anything that is contrary to God’s will = Sin,

    A sin is anything that is morally wrong,whether it be adultery,fornication, or homosexuality (or any other sin)

    God put his laws in place for our benefit, when people willfully rebel against God, negative consequences are bound to follow.
    Those that willfully ignore God’s mandates will nonetheless give account, those that deny God’s existence will answer to him as well.

  • Deep Blue on Jul 3, 2009

    Very well written, I just see there are many gays out there waiting to be heard.

  • Bo Russo on Jul 3, 2009

    I read it.I’m not well enough informed to say much about this

  • look on Jul 3, 2009

    Eminemgrl:”And as to the idiots who have commented or will comment”

    Geez Em, you sure know how to be tactful don’t you? God DOES disapprove of all forms of sin, and it’s not “idiotic” to inform people of that fact. In fact there is nothing more LOVING than ministering to people, God wants the BEST for all of us, Jesus said “Go ye into all the world and share the gospel with every creature”

    If you saw a child doing something risky, would you stand by and let them do it? If we just stood by while people practiced detrimental behaviors then when it caused illness and death the responsibility would be on us for not warning them.

  • Lex on Jul 3, 2009

    First of all I don’t see how this is poetry. So that’s odd.

    Second of all, I am a gay Christian and I know some of you here will take offense to that, but I don’t believe there is any contradiction – the contradiction only exists in the minds of others, not in the mind of God. I’m not interested in starting an argument; I’ve been in enough arguments already. I just want to say that I believe that the two sides need to start fighting each other and just learn to get along. Christians need to go out and get an education and stop believing all the myths that exist about homosexuality. Meanwhile, gays need to go out and also get an education and stop believing all the myths that exist about religious faith. Both groups need to just stop hating each other. I thought we learned how to get along with different people in kindergarten – apparently not.

    Anyway, good job mnofdichotomy. You have a supporter here.

  • Mathias on Jul 3, 2009

    Lex, I will have you know I have thoroughly researched the topic of homosexuality and it IS a risky behavior, the Center for Disease control has confirmed its risks, therefore I am not “bashing” anyone as so many seem to believe, dear Lex I am here only to inform, not to attack or argue.

  • R J Evans on Jul 3, 2009

    A well written article that looks at an emotive subject coolly and dispassionately.

    I cannot believe some of the responses, however. Perhaps my European sensibilities are too liberal but it did not stop me from laughing out loud at some of these comments.

    Sweetievie believes that telling her gay friends that homosexuality is not morally right was not mean. What would be then? Stoning them to death?

    …and Mathis. Equating homosexuality to a disease is so nineteen fifties. Get with the century!

    I love American moralising. Yes, I really do.

    Still, good job author!

  • Cynthia Bartlett on Jul 3, 2009

    Marriage is between man and a woman.
    God made “Adam and Eve” not “Adam and Steve” (Brett L. Hudson)
    That is not to say that if something should happen to one or the other partner, that they should not have certain privileges;However, marriage is not a privilege neither is it a right. No wonder people flip out with “a piece of paper”.
    If people want to return to the B.C. era, why not go all the way. Dissolve marriages, stores, money, technology etc. Stop persecuting child molesters and murders and the like. Who knows maybe the earth would be better off without the technology.
    Just like if people want to believe that they are descendants of apes and want to behave as such, um it doesn’t appeal to me, but whatever ‘floats your boat.’

    Who knows maybe giving your first child to a person old enough to be their parent may be more effective than searching on ones own for a life partner. Go back to violent outbursts killing one or the other spouse or killing one’s children…hey might solve the over population problem that many are complaining about.

    Just saying..

  • postpunkpixie on Jul 3, 2009

    I totally agree with you, just call it a marriage and be done with it. Also I can’t believe some commenters still refuse to accept that sexuality isn’t a matter of choice. Ignore all scientific evidence why don’t you. *sighs*

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 3, 2009

    Look: not trying to be tactful. But I love how you know what God thinks. Do you go over to his house for tea, or are you just e-mailing Him? And don’t shoot back some crap about the Bible being His word, because if you really feel like taking it literally you should just go tell your mother to stone you for talking back to her when you were a teenager.

    Mathias: You can’t possibly have researched the topic of homosexuality unless you’re homosexual yourself, and if you are just come out already because the people who will accept you are way cooler than the people you’re trying to impress now. As to the difference between love and lust… hello, that was my point. Did you read my comment or just get the general idea of what I was saying and decide to be pissy? Because frankly, I think it’s pretty rude of you to just decide that I didn’t say what I said… or maybe you’re illiterate?

  • California Dreamer on Jul 3, 2009

    Wow, what an issue you hit on:
    My own opinion, simply is:
    We are suppose to be the land of the free! If this is true, No One should be told whom they can or cannot marry, If you are of legal age and consenting adults, then leave it be. There are some cultures where they can have many wives, so why can we not let two who love each other be together. Why does anyone have to feel they need to keep their religion or the love of their life hidden away in the closet, where is our so called freedom?
    You have movie stars marrying some 30+ years younger or older, does anyone speak bad of that, NO, you have some who have lived together their whole lives and had children out of wedlock, are they spoken bad about that, NO. So if two who love each other, want to be together, Hell Ya, let them live a happy life of peacefulness like the rest of us, let them be FREE to choose.

  • Mathias on Jul 3, 2009

    Eminemgrl, I was never here to attack, just to make a point it is you that displays hostility and anger. Homosexuality is dangerous, there is plenty of medical literature by EXPERTS in the medical community (and the Center For Disease Control)that has documented the dangers of homosexual behaviors, so do your research and take your anger elsewhere.

  • A thought occured to me on Jul 3, 2009

    Hostility over the internet is ridiculous

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 3, 2009

    I’m not angry at all. I’m having a great time. You’re just trying to save face because I’m articulating my arguments better. You can’t just decide, by the way, that EXPERTS are backing you up, because data can support both our sides, depending on which data we look at and who found that data, and what they wanted it to say and why. Certainly, I’ve done my research, only it seems I’ve read much differently than you have. I suppose, having similar arguments, we should just drop the issue altogether. But I doubt I’ll be taking any part of me anywhere else any time soon, as I happen to be fairly passionate with the issue, having experienced so much discrimination against my homosexual friends (and even myself for my perceived homosexuality) for so long. I guess you don’t like it when people disagree with your opinion (and it is nothing more than an opinion- you aren’t God, after all), but neither does anybody else, so don’t pretend you have any more idea than others what you’re talking about and maybe I’ll respect you and those of your opinion a little more.

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 3, 2009

    And I really would have dropped it in the first place, except that people fail to see the point of the article itself (remember, it was about equal rights) and decide that the world needs to read their ideas about what’s going on in God’s head and why that makes them more intelligent than everyone else (the EXPERTS back them up, by the way- but of course straight people don’t get STDs…). But then, I’m more than happy to keep this extremely pointless argument going, as I’m sure Mnofdichotomy doesn’t mind the responsory hits too much…

  • ?? on Jul 3, 2009

    calling people idiots,illiterate, and saying you advocate someone be “punched in the face” isn’t anger Em? WOW then I hate to see what you do when you are angry.

  • mistahsparklez on Jul 4, 2009

    true story.
    at first i was extremely upset with the decision wisconsin made. then i read a little more. so i’m still not pleased with the overall outcome, but at least one additional state is taking a big step in the right direction. it takes serious guts to change a constitution, knowing you are going to face harsh ridicule. when people see the true meaning of expression, love will surface.

  • eminemgrl123 on Jul 4, 2009

    As I said, I’m passionate about the issue. I feel entitled to be. Maybe I didn’t make it clear that I’m fine with everyone having their own opinion- I just think it’s deplorable that people think their opinion is fact because God thinks so too, though as I’ve said no one has any idea what God thinks, and either way religion should have nothing to do with government (wait, wasn’t that the original point?

  • Mark Gordon Brown on Jul 4, 2009

    What is this doing on Authspot? Clearly a well written article deserves a better place, perhaps socyberty or the news one…
    ask Triond to move this so your page gets more value for the hits as it deserves more!!!!

  • Brenda Nelson on Jul 4, 2009

    Also in favor of Gam marriages and I agree that religions are the ones opposed to it, some times their arguments are laughable, like when they say marriage is about raising children, I have to wonder why they do not protest marriage between infertile or old couples?

  • Brenda Nelson on Jul 4, 2009

    GAY marriages that is suppose to say…

  • Inna Tysoe on Jul 4, 2009

    Good article and strong points. I agree with you btw. I mean, people who are gay did not choose to be that way; it’s genetics or nature’s way of controlling the population. They found that if too many rats are together a certain percentage of them will be born homosexual. So being gay is as natural as being straight. Except of course that if you are one of the people nature chose to keep the population under control you will be faced with horrible discrimination.

    Thanks for that!

    Inna

  • Cynthia Bartlett on Jul 4, 2009

    LOL that’s the way it is with controversial topics. Everyone has an opinion. Still, CD, marriage IS different. Too many people take it for granted, abuse it, miss use it, etc.
    What’s the point in (for sake of argument only) to allow homosexuals to get married if they are only going to turn around and file for divorce?

    If your spouse cheats on you, easily solved if male cut it off. if female …just shoot her. well okay, maybe that’s not a good solution the female ends up dead while guys get creative. umm okay

    Maybe instead of persecuting the people exercising polygamy maybe they have the right idea, the guy gets several wives, honey do lists, the only draw back is the remote possibility that they all PMS at the same time. Some guys may be able to handle sex after …what… a four hour break in between wives, of course it is not universal some guys can bounce back after thirty minutes, ladies this is rare. The exception rather than the rule, if you will. (personal experience, don’t ask with whom)

  • Duff D Moss on Jul 7, 2009

    Well said dude. I can’t believe how backwards society in general is over this issue in the 21st century.

  • revivor on Jul 7, 2009

    from stumble – tremendous discussion!!

    I am a christian but I am quite happy for all people to have an official, formal recognition of “relationship permanence” to distinguish it in law from “serial flitting about” that should not warrant the priviliges of permanence (nobody starts out with divorce in mind). This covers the “state” bit (about 3 minutes in a current UK wedding).

    I would then encourage Christians to be distinct by marrying before God and taking on all that that involves. This would also include the “relationship permanence” bit that all “weddings” would require. Christians would not be saying “God or nothing” to non believers, people would not have to pretend by making vows to “God”/singing hymns no-one knows etc, anyone who intends permanence could have this ratified and Christians can maintain distinctiveness whilst removing pretence. All happy??

  • Elizabeth Abbott on Jul 7, 2009

    Your article is well composed and deserves an audience. My opinion of the subject is not necessary here although there is a negative for every positive. Article well written. Liz
    P. S. I do appreciate Mr. Revivor’s comment.

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